How Childhood Trauma Affects us in Adulthood With Vanessa Rosage, LPC
This week we’re speaking with Vanessa Rosage, LPC. Vanessa has been a therapist for 14 years
If you've been following me on TikTok, you know very well what could have caused your childhood trauma.
But, how does it affect us later in life–as adults? In far-reaching scary ways is my initial thought, but what if we're neurodivergent?
How does trauma as a whole affect kids with ADHD, who are autistic, have other issues that could affect their ability to cope?
Also, what the hell is happening to our bodies physically when we have prolonged exposure to trauma?
Tune in this week to find out with our special guest–Vanessa Rosage!
This week we’re speaking with Vanessa Rosage, LPC. Vanessa has been a therapist for 14 years. Currently, she runs a private practice and works primarily with children, parents, families, couples, adolescents and young adults. During her time with her patients, she uses several tools to help each patient and has a foundational theoretical orientation that is rooted in interpersonal neurobiology, which aims to heal trauma, anxiety, fear and shame through the connection and relationship between people. As a trained DEEP specialist, Vanessa understands how to create safe and healing environments in the therapeutic relationship.
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Episode Transcript
Sarah Potter 01:11
Welcome to this week's episode, we're going to be digging deep into some childhood trauma and how it affects us as not just kids but into adulthood to this week, my guest is Vanessa massage. Vanessa has been a therapist for 14 years. Currently, she runs a private practice and works primarily with children, parents, families, couples, adolescents and young adults. But during her time with her patients, she uses several tools to help each patient have a foundational theoretical orientation that is rooted in interpersonal neurobiology, which aims to heal trauma, anxiety, fear, and shame through the connection and relationship between people. She's a trained deep specialist and understands how to create safe healing environments and the therapeutic relationship for this week's episode, I highly recommend you take it piece by piece, there may become points in time where you could feel emotionally triggered. And I absolutely want to make sure that you feel as safe as possible. So if you start feeling like you're getting anxious or feeling entirely unsafe, please pause this episode and focus on your mental health first. With that said, let's dive into this week's episode with Vanessa. So what causes childhood trauma?
Vanessa Rosage 02:30
Well, so they're the most simple way I could possibly pare it down is that it is a set of experiences that occur when you are in this prime development where your brain is basically creating a roadmap for what you should expect in life. And what the brain the body, which sometimes referred to as like the soma, so the soma has this idea of being all the parts that are interconnected between the brain and the body and the nervous system. And so your nervous system and your brain and your body are creating these roadmaps. When you're young about what you can expect in life, from people and relationships, it kind of puts together if I do A then B happens. And because you're so little and helpless, the primary focus was necessary is usually survival. So if you're ever in situations where there is a threat to your well being whether you are in what we would call a real threat, because when the threat is imminent, it's going to hurt you or kill you, or it's perceived. So you believe that you are going to die essentially, or get hurt. It doesn't really matter sometimes, which it is. And so what that looks like as you get older, is you begin to put those pieces together around perceived or actual threats in the nervous system. And you react to something that might be benign, something that's sort of just every day as an actual threat
Sarah Potter 04:24
Geez. So like put out your your mind being this like roadmap as a child and your your brain is trying to figure out and create pathways for how you experience life like that is that is so much that is a much better description than anyone ever calling a child's brain a sponge, because it's more than just absorbing what's going on around you. It's it's about helping you our brain begin to understand how to respond to all of the things that happen in life. And when you constantly have this major and micro explosions along your path. It just destroys you. And that, you know, I want to understand like, what does trauma do to a child's body? Like, physically? How does trauma manifest in a child?
Vanessa Rosage 05:17
Yeah, absolutely. So for a kiddo in their body, so I'm trying to be careful when you think about the brain and the body, there can be some similarities in the nervous system. But there's also sort of these three different ways in which trauma can impact those systems. And they all matter when you talk about childhood trauma. So I'm going to, I'm going to break them down into three different sections really quick and make it pretty succinct. The ways in which it impacts the brain is that it focuses on survival. So when you have a brain that's focused on survival, some of the other mechanisms of the brain that you might need to thrive like your prefrontal cortex, or maybe, let's say, the parts of your brain that are around developing connected relationships, or thriving creativity, curiosity, those areas are not going to be prioritized in terms of brain development, you're going to be seeing a prioritization in the hippocampus, in the amygdala, all of those parts that are connected to the the nervous system, and I just asked like, does that make sense so far? Yes, yeah, that makes sense. Great, great. And so then the nervous system is also in the body, they also are prioritizing survival. But that looks a little bit different. So for the nervous system, inside the body that's connected to those areas of the brain. But the nervous system is so much more involuntary, it's the things that we might do, where we might jump or startle when we hear a noise, or curl up to protect ourselves, it's these automatic reactions that we might have to something that feels scary or startling, that causes to go into fight, flight or freeze. And then the body is the layers of muscle, your bone, all those different pieces. And those are directly impacted in so many different ways. But more like some of the most brilliant research is around the way in which the hormones that are coursing through your body as a result of its focus on survival in the brain are things like cortisol and the HPA access. And so the cortisol running through your body can break down your organs and your nervous system and your bones at a faster rate then, than otherwise would be necessary. Because your body isn't built to hold that level of cortical stress. And so you want that's that's that those are like the different three different ways that trauma can impact the brain, the nervous system and the body.
Sarah Potter 08:00
God, that's insane. Like, okay, so I have not only childhood trauma, but adult trauma as well. And in truth, like basically, I was a single mom for six years. And in 2019, I started having these really intense chest pains. And I thought I was having a heart attack, I thought I was going to like, need a stent in my heart or something, because it was just so painful and so intense. And my body got weak. And it was just like, it came my life came to the point where my body was like, Okay, we can't take this anymore. So we're just going to bail out. And it did that after I had an entire year of healthy relationship with my now husband. And for two years, he essentially like take took care of me. And it really helps support me going to intensive therapy and doctor's office visits and all these different things. So when you say like cortisol breaks down the body faster than it normally would, because it can't handle that much stress like that is so like that. It makes so much sense to me. Because I'm just sitting here thinking like, oh my god, this is, this is what happened. And now I have to figure out like how to move forward and onward. So when when someone realizes I have childhood trauma, oh, I'm starting to feel all these physical symptoms, I must be sick, is that usually because their body is just coming to a point where they're real? It's it can't handle any of that physical stress?
Vanessa Rosage 09:42
Absolutely. So there's this great book called The Body Keeps the Score and she goes into and there's another great one called childhood disrupted and it they're both fantastic. They talk a lot about this phenomena. A lot of what happens in childhood trauma as well can be dissociation which basically means you are disconnecting your brain experience. So that thing that's happening from you in the moment to what your body is feeling, because it's too overwhelming. And this happens to children a lot, because again, their bodies are so little. And they can only handle so much strain before their brain goes into this space where it goes to protect them. And in order to protect them, it really sort of deadens the experience that they can remember having, like, in their explicit memory, that which is sort of like the memory that we can hold on to and know, the implicit memory, the memory that you kind of exists more inside of your body in terms of sensations and images and experiences that are more physical. When you go into a dissociative state, you're not really paying attention to your body very well. And so as you grow up, you might not ever feel like it's safe to connect with your body in a really deep way, like where you really learn how to listen to it, and really learn how to respond to it. Because this sort of relationship with your body, even if it's a good one, we don't get to choose if we have access to joy and not pain, like if we have access to pleasure, we also have access to pain. And so the the option for the body is to have access to none. And when you were experiencing that your symptoms that you might start to develop in terms of feeling really ill or not feeling like your body is working well for you. It might be like you're saying, it might not be until it's so overwhelming that you can't ignore it anymore. That you're almost sort of forced to not dissociate from your body anymore. Because the physical symptoms are so extreme or dire.
Sarah Potter 11:52
Oh, my god like this. This is hitting me hard. I can't, how it's hitting everyone else. So a question continuing on this tangent but driving more into neurodivergent children? How does trauma affect them differently? Are they more disassociated from the trauma that's happening? And they're disconnecting, like you mentioned more often than neurotypical children? Or is there just a higher degree of sensitivity happening?
Vanessa Rosage 12:22
If so, you've just asked one of my favorite questions. This is an area of expertise. For me, it's I see a lot of kiddos in this area as well as adults. And it really, really depends on the child, of course. So I just want to put in context here that what I'm about to say, applies to many of these kiddos, but not all, and that is because nobody is a monolith, and everyone is different. But for the most part, these kiddos often have a heightened degree of sensitivity, either through their nervous systems, or through their taking in the amount of information through their brain. So a lot of these kiddos filter system is sort of similar to a kiddo with ADHD, but they don't have ADHD, and that they take in a lot of sensory info, whether it be smells, sights, sounds, words, textures, but they don't necessarily have some of the other symptoms that come along with ADHD. But they have some of the similarities. So when you're talking about neuro divergence, you're talking about kiddos that have just a brain that diverges from what we might consider to be the typical, like you said, neurotypical brain. So these kiddos, their sensory input can make them feel like they're taking in too much too fast too soon. And they can feel alone, which is some of the definers of trauma, like traumas really has some of the definitions that are pretty popular are that it's just too it's too much too fast too soon, and you often feel alone in that experience. And so for these kiddos, there is an increased tendency to dissociate because they are not necessarily supported and being able to filter that information at a rate that is comfortable for them. And that helps them to feel safe. I think the other level of trauma to be aware of with these kiddos is the trauma our society hands them so I feel a lot of these kiddos in really some super supportive loving environments, and they actually tend to do really, really well. And then they get put into an environment that's either neurotypical or isn't very sensitive to some of the ways in which their brain works differently. And often, the social trauma like the expectations from society that are put on them and cause them to feel shame, become a trauma for them, not necessarily even the parts of them that are just wired differently, it's the fact that other people shame them for being wired differently that can create that sort of trauma. And that can definitely look pretty intense for for these kiddos because they process that in a much, much bigger way, sometimes either neural in the way in which their nervous system processes it or sort of philosophically or existentially, they're much quicker to plumb it into a shame place where they're like, I'm a bad person, I don't deserve to be here than maybe a neurotypical kid.
Sarah Potter 15:32
So my son is autistic. And I 100% see him diving very quickly off the edge into some of these states of mind, especially when he comes home from his dad's house. Because his I don't know what happens there. And I can't make any assumptions. Like that's not fair for me to do. But I just know based on his behavior, when he comes home, that there are things going on that are not great for him, especially being autistic and having a high high sensitivity level, as well as him being super empathic. And when he comes home, he often says he wants to be alone, or he'll say things like I really missed you, Mom, I felt so lonely, and continued to talk about how alone he felt, even if he may not have been feeling alone. And the same thing happens when he comes home from school. Right now, he's being integrated more into a neurotypical classroom. And it's definitely challenging for him simply based on the fact that he is surrounded by people who are not like him. And he craves to be in situations where he's with other autistic kids, and have that sense of understanding between all of them where they can all feel like, like they're understanding each other, and that they're the same. So when he comes home, he'll talk about how he couldn't make any friends. And no one likes him. Everyone hates him. He's, he's weird. He's goofy, like, all these really negative shameful things. And it's just a deep, deep, dark pit of despair, whenever he talks about things that bother him. And I'm the same way I'm ADHD. And it's very difficult to get out of the pit that we dig ourselves, especially as neurodivergent it just feels like we can't get out, and that we're trapped in this space, and that we're never gonna get out no matter what. And, like, for me, it took my entire life up until I turned 30. To realize I have trauma and everything I've been doing up until this point has been a trauma response. And then this year, being diagnosed with ADHD, I have this like, oh, wow, all of these things are starting to make sense. And I understand my brain and why I physically feel the way that I feel. So for people who are either neurodivergent, or neurotypical, and they're beginning to feel like sick or, or realize like, I feel unsafe, the majority of the time, how long is it taking for people on average, to realize that they were traumatized in their childhood?
Vanessa Rosage 18:20
Yeah, this also really depends, I mean, really, really depends. You know, a lot of times what I see is that this often occurs when something that they want in life eludes them. Like they can, they can't really figure out why they tried all the things that are the keep repeating a pattern. Or sometimes it can be that like, this realization occurs when someone is moving through physical symptoms that keep the person from feeling safe. So it might be like you're saying, all of a sudden, they're having this horrible chest pain, and they don't know why. Or it could be that they want a healthy relationship, and it just seems to evade them. Like they don't understand why they can't seem to get into a healthy relationship, intimate or non non intimate. Or their shame they can they just feel this overwhelming sense of shame, and they don't really understand sometimes it's flashbacks, all of a sudden, someone will have these really intrusive memories, and they not sure where they come from. But to be honest, a lot of times, I don't think people really even know it's childhood trauma. They just know that they want to do something in their lives and they feel stuck like they are they are not able. And that is one of the major pieces of grief around childhood trauma and trauma in general is that it really robs you of choice. And I think that that is one of the greatest indicators for childhood trauma is when you really feel our trauma in general is when you feel like you don't have any choice. Does that make some sense to
Sarah Potter 20:00
Oh my god so much sense.
Vanessa Rosage 20:04
Yeah, so that choice is renegotiated I think through a bunch of different modalities, depending on what works for you. Yeah, whether that be therapy or that be, you know, getting into a community group or a good, good intimate relationship that's like really supportive and healthy. or books, or, I mean, honestly, it's the tiktoks these days are so educational. There, it starts to become this realization that you are feeling stuck, and that you are lacking choice. And I think the moment that you're able to recognize that you, once again, have choice in some area where you haven't felt like you do. That becomes clear when the trauma becomes unstuck. The only point of clarity I want to make really quick before wrapping this piece up is that is sometimes literally true that you do not have a choice. And I'm really referring to things that are bigger in our society that are deeply traumatic and not moving, like a lot of like homophobia or racism ableism, I mean, a patriarchy, you know, those are the things that are really some immovable forces that we COVID that we continue to feel rightly so like, we don't really have a choice at all times. And I think that that's really important to note the difference.
Sarah Potter 21:30
Absolutely. Like, I can feel the difference between all of those things too, like the, the, I have external frustration over things, I can't have choice over when it comes to the patriarchy. And I have that internal frustration like deep level rage, frustration inside, when I feel that I can't make a choice for my own or have any of my own autonomy over personal choices in any regard to my own self. And like that physical manifestation is very, very difficult to deal with on a, I would say almost daily basis, there are often times where I'll have a conversation with my husband. And he'll, he'll remind me like you can choose to react or choose to do something different. You don't have to do what you feel or think I want you to do, like your choice is your own. And having to be constantly reminded of that. Also makes me feel like when and how often in my life was I never given a choice over anything. If I feel that I have to just constantly force myself to make my own choices and stand up for myself.
Vanessa Rosage 22:51
Yes. Oh, my goodness. Absolutely. There's so I imagine, as a parent, you also have watched the 1000s of ways in which you can either share power or how have power over
Sarah Potter 23:04
Yeah, I have. Like, it's, it's kind of crazy. My So growing up, I definitely had a household where we lived by if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy, very toxic to saying now that I am older and have my own kids. And I always said to myself, you know, I don't want to live that way. I want to have my kids see, like, I'm upset and I'm angry right now. And, and that's okay. You can also be upset and angry. What you do does not have to affect my mood, or how I react to you. Just as your frustration isn't going to influence how I treat you, you are allowed to express that emotion. And you are allowed to do and say and choose the things you want to do without me forcing you to suffer consequences or be angry with you and give you a silent treatment or berate you with words. And like any kid who grew up in a household that was you know, held to this ridiculous toxic saying, probably feels the same way like I don't want to be like my parents and and do everything to please this adult in my life. I want to have autonomy over my own emotions, and feel like I can safely express myself on any emotional level without repercussions or having my parents blame me for making them feel angry and frustrated or depressed. Like that's unfair to put on that child entirely unfair. And yeah, that's my thought on
Vanessa Rosage 24:48
Oh, apps. I mean, again, so so much of this I agree with and I nod and I just want to also be clear that there's a lot of privilege and being able to access that love role of support help reflection space and that we don't really support everyone in I mean especially bodies of the global majority people that are in low socio economic statuses we do not support those communities and being able to have that kind of space to shift patterns in a way that I think we see how valuable it is as a culture and we watch children are responded to differently and how much they are able to really work towards honestly being like little liberated human beings. And and I just want to acknowledge that while this is all true, and this is ideal that we really have a long long way to go before everyone can potentially access this level of parenting our being able to resolve their childhood trauma.
Sarah Potter 25:53
Oh my god, yes. Like I so one of the videos that I made on tick tock that has like almost 800,000 views on it is how childhood trauma manifests itself and a lot of like, so many people ask the same question like how I am all of these things that how and when and where and why did I get childhood trauma I don't understand. And so like this list that I create in this video I list out the childhood trauma manifests itself as fixing others people pleasing codependency external validation needed, living on high alert, fear of abandonment D prioritizing your own needs need to prove themselves tolerates abusive behavior attracts narcissistic partners and or difficulty setting boundaries. And I My question for you is, you know, what are in addition to like, realizing these might be some of the things that you're doing? Are all of those things of childhood manifestation? Accurate? And what else might indicate someone has childhood trauma, aside from those ones listed? Yeah, those are
Vanessa Rosage 27:07
all really, really common. Some of the other ones that tend to be I would probably say more on the psychological talk side are just things like a tendency to flee, fight, freeze, dissociate, or appease or kind of be a people pleaser, I think that was one of them on your list, as well as these sort of oversized reactions to events that are not within the scale of the reaction. And to be clear, this doesn't, I want to delineate that this doesn't mean you have intense big feelings, those are okay and completely within the norm. Or you even have big emotional expression. But we talk about it a little bit like an iceberg, and that the iceberg that's tipping up out of the ocean is sort of the 30%. That is you can see in the moment, and then the whole other 70% of what the reaction is about is like underneath the water. So it could be that you are walking out the door, and the winds slams the door behind you, and you jump like 10 feet up into the air, and your heart is racing, and you just shake, and for some reason, the rest of the day, you just feel sort of jittery and on edge. And you don't really know why that is the door just slammed shut, like, yes, you'd have a response to that you might jump and maybe feel shaky for a bit. But this doesn't really seem to go away all day and you go to bed that night, and you still feel like something's wrong, and you have this pit in your stomach. And those are all to me finds that mate, it's very possible that something occurred when you were a kid where something a door was slammed, and something bad happened. Because your body is telling a story to you. And you are not able to connect with that story with words, which is what a lot of the childhood trauma is, as well as the body absorbs and sort of registers things but doesn't necessarily have the words to put to it. And so it just becomes these reactions that you have inside yourself. So I would say those are some of the pieces that you may have left out of that particular list. But I'm sure that list is incredibly long because everyone's childhood trauma and how they react to it can be so different and so diverse. So yeah, I hope that makes some sense. Yeah,
Sarah Potter 29:36
no, totally. It does. Oh my gosh, like the thing I have learned about my own childhood trauma and my own trauma in general, is that it is so different than the other person or the next person even if my story with someone else's is very much the same. And I think you know the same is like as we were talking came about earlier between those who are neurotypical neurodivergent. How they experienced trauma is also their own individual experience and how they physically manifested and feel it. So with that, my next question is, do you think we all have some level of childhood trauma? According to a couple of the studies that I've been reading on childhood trauma, approximately 49% of people within the US have some form of childhood trauma, whether that was like being bullied in school or having toxic parents, or experiencing an adverse experience, like a family member being imprisoned or a family member dying and an accident or something along those lines. And this has been something that has been said in a lot of my Tiktok videos, too, as someone asked people saying, like, so the sounds like almost everybody has some kind of childhood trauma.
Vanessa Rosage 30:57
This is such an excellent question. So I'm actually going to start by answering this question with a quote from one of my favorite books on trauma. It's called the politics of trauma by Stacy Haynes. And I want to do this because I wanted to find when we say has everyone experienced childhood trauma, I want to make sure that we're really clear about what we're defining as trauma. So what the way they define it is an experience or set of experiences, and impact from social conditions that break or betray our inherent need for safety, belonging and dignity, experiences that result in us having to vibe between those needs, often setting one against the other. So you might say to yourself, I can be safe, but not connected, or I can be connected, but not authentic. And Gabor Motzei talks about this a lot, too, in terms of authenticity, that as children, we often feel like we have to choose between a really authentic expression of ourselves, or staying connected to our caregiver. And when given that choice, we will always choose survival, we will always choose the connection to caregiver who is the person that is keeping us alive. And because they're keeping us alive, we can't possibly imagine that any of this their fault, so we often internalize it and blame it on ourselves. So when you ask, Do we all have childhood trauma? I want to say, Yeah, we, we were all raised in a society that is built on trauma. It's built on white supremacy, and ableism. And homophobia, I mean, we are swimming in these experiences around us where people are losing or feeling like they cannot express their authentic selves while also staying connected to other human beings. So I think the only way that we're going to get away from or begin to see generations where children are not growing up with some degree of trauma is not only inside the home, but beginning to completely revolutionize the society itself to
Sarah Potter 33:08
now I couldn't agree more like goosebumps while you were saying literally all of that. And one of the things that I have really had a hard time coming to terms with and have been denying, for a long time is that caregiver child relationship, it is so incredibly true. And so many people who talks about who talk about having toxic parents or toxic caregivers, in general, have often mentioned how reliant on that relationship they were as children, and how they felt forced to be a version of themselves that just was not accurate or true, or who they are today. And when that child grows up and feels comfortable saying like, This is who I am, and this is who I need you to accept me as whether that be you know, coming out as gay or lesbian or trans. Or really like, just saying, you know, I, I love goth music, I don't love pop music, then this I'm goth. This is how it's going to be even something like that, no matter what it is that you're coming to terms within and allowing yourself to really live into, there's always going to be that caregiver who may be toxic that comes back and says, Well, how could you do this to me? And I feel like when that happens in adulthood, it just, for me, at least, it makes me feel like I'm reliving some of that trauma that I'm reliving having to be forced into this perspective of myself that is not my own, and be this person or this version that wears this mask to please the other people around me so that they don't abandon me and that they continue to take care of me and and that I feel like I'm in somewhat of a safe environment. I'm in terms of getting the food and water and shelter that I need. But also sacrificing being myself in order to have all of those things I need to survive. And I feel like survival is really a theme that continues to come up with in our discussion is just like a lot of these things that happen and childhood trauma. And the way that we react as the children experiencing the trauma and the adverse experiences is we're our brains are doing what will help us survive in the moment. So when we get to adulthood, and we begin to realize I think I have trauma that I am not dealing with, how do we admit that to ourselves? Or what what do we do when we're not ready for therapy? And we don't want to be seen as someone who goes to therapy, which I think is stupid bullshit. Honestly, anyone who knocks on therapy is is denying that they actually like their own therapy.
Vanessa Rosage 36:03
Yeah, I really, really appreciate that exploration of how do you begin to acknowledge or look at this when you may not be ready. And it's not actually uncommon. In fact, it would, it makes complete sense that you would be nervous to enter the most intimate of relationships with another person, which is therapy. And in that you that nervousness would come from the trauma you might have incurred when you were a child around relationships, I mean, the lack of trust, around being able to know that another person can hold space for all the different parts of you, or even the level of just fear that there can that can exist, knowing that it might be possible that you're completely wrong about all the horrible things you think about yourself. I know that sounds bizarre in some ways, but really, when you begin to believe in your own worth, it really changes everything, you might have to leave friendships or marriages or jobs, or you might have to move. I mean, that's, it's really scary. And I, I really, really, really honor and respect that fear. And so if someone's feeling ready, actually, there's a excellent book called What happened to you by Oprah, and Bruce Perry, I would highly recommend reading that book as a way of just beginning to tiptoe into what the both the neuroscience and the personal experience of what it's like to absorb and go through childhood trauma, I would say another piece that is really, really important is to just go so slow, I think a lot of people enter therapy, and they think, Oh, I'll be in and out and 12 sessions, we're gonna have a goal, we're gonna get things done. And I actually think what happens is, the thing that causes trauma is not the event itself. There is this incredible study that was done with kiddos that were in war zones, and they were being forced to go out and participate in war when they were very, very young. And so they would need to leave their villages. And the study was more observational, they couldn't actually ethically create some sort of fake environments. But what they did is, they noticed that when these kids came back and return to their villages after they had been in horrific war circumstances for three months, that it wasn't the events themselves that the children witnessed or experienced, but it was the way in which they were held and supported and cared for when they returned, that made all the difference in their trauma symptoms. And so, I think just knowing that, as a parent, I think there's a huge freedom, sense of relief, knowing that you don't have to be perfect. You don't have to, I mean, as an adult growing up, even knowing you've experienced childhood trauma, it's the there's not a need for perfection. There isn't this intensity around never scaring your kids or putting them in a situation where they might be afraid or worried. But what's actually really important is learning how to hold space for their feelings and their grief and their fear, or your own feelings of fear or grief, or sadness or fear as an adult. And if you have people in your life that can do that. Whether that be your spiritual community or your partner or your friends, that's where you begin to change these patterns is just being held in your grief and being held in what you experienced. Because it's often not the event itself. That is actually traumatizing.
Sarah Potter 39:56
That's really interesting. I never would have thought of it it that way. And I think that comes down to continuing to learn about how trauma affects us and how we feel and think and see it. And as a parent, who's definitely yelled at her kids a few times, probably more than a few times and been frustrated with them, you know, that is a relief to hear, and understanding, like, what is the most important thing is that love and that support and that care that you show and give to your kids thereafter. And this addresses another issue that I've seen a lot of moms actually not necessarily dads, but a lot of moms in some of my childhood trauma Tiktok videos who say like, well, I've got my own childhood drama, and I'm just passing it down to my kids. Now I need to figure out how to stop doing that. So for the mom that feels like, obviously, that is a lot of guilt, and a lot of their own shame around those things. And I feel those things 100 And bajillion million percent too. So if you're a parent who wants to end the cycle, let's, let's say the generational cycle of toxicity and childhood trauma, how can they start doing that, in addition to providing their kids with a physically and emotionally loving, supportive and caring environment?
Vanessa Rosage 41:28
Oh, I love this question of kids is my own and trauma of my own. And I really, really understand this on a really deep level, I would say, again, there is a level of privilege here that needs to just be acknowledged, I can't say this enough for parents that are not given as much of the supports as others, I would say, even the simplest ways in which you work to acknowledge what might have happened between you and your child that didn't feel good, validate their feelings, and work towards repair, you are already on tingling, generations and generations of trauma, just in some of those very simple, simple engagements with your kiddo. And if you want to build on that, I really do. Give me advice that we all get on the airplane, which is like you got to put on your mask before that on your kid. And I think that really means the more you create that space and compassion and work on you, and what is happening, what happened to you, when you were a child, the more you will notice it just naturally ends up flowing down into the way that you interact with your child. And a lot of that is because the more that you can unpack any of those interactions that were scary or overwhelming, or felt like they were too much, and you were so alone, you will begin to feel less triggered when something happens with your child. And they are needing that same support and love. It's really, really, really hard to give what you were not given. But I do often also recommend to fake it till you make it. So if that means that, you know your kid is just falling apart, because they just had the scariest thing happened to them. And you are in your last breath of patience. And you're not sure how much longer you can just stay there and be quiet and hold them until you're tempted to do what your parents did. And tell them to just like suck it up and be quiet. Just take a deep breath and just smile and hold them a little tighter and you just like count 30 You know. And I think sometimes even just being able to engage in that behavior, even if you can't quite feel it is super, super important. As long as you're also doing the work along the way too. Because it's hard. I'm just gonna be honest, it's so, so, so hard. And some of the most brave and courageous and meaningful time and energy we can spend is being able to really be present with ourselves so we can be present with one another differently. Oh, man.
Sarah Potter 44:17
Yes. So really like the analogy of getting on the plane putting your mask on first. And then like it's, it's said so often, but it is so fucking accurate with how we need to approach life in general, with everybody. And something that I mentioned. It's the saying to someone the other day, and they said, Well, isn't that selfish of you? Why should Why aren't you putting yourself above others? And I think the key point with that is it's not about me first it's about me too. And that is something that I do I'm constantly neglected, was incorporating that I too needed help. And I too needed support and love and encouragement and positive people in my life. And if you don't feel like you have the support, or you're in an environment where you can work to break down some of these generational habits that we all incur, from our parents, from their, from their parents, and their parents, and so on, like, trying to find somewhere to do that is so important. One of the places that I started, was my Discord channel, where people could come and share their grief or their issues, or their excitement, or their joy, whatever is whatever they need to get off their chest. But, like, you mentioned, privilege, like that is absolutely a privileged thing to be able to go anywhere to be with anyone who can give you what you need in order to be the person, your kids need, or the person that you needed when you were a kid, is something that so so many of us take for granted. And I think recognizing that is really important. But my main point being like, yes, every everything you're saying is is like a eye opening and be confirming what I have felt in my heart. And in my mind for so, so long.
Vanessa Rosage 46:31
Ah, thank you, it feels really, really important to try to hold the space for all of the different elements of it. And I often feel like the privilege piece is not really discussed in the spaces around trauma. And yeah, you know, even the freedom to feel like you can raise your child differently to be in the world differently, because they're safe enough, you know, we raised children that we're going to challenge authority. Let's create this wonderful. Well, what about a black kid who challenges authority, that might be his life. So when you think about giving parents the freedom to be able to undo their trauma, you really have to undo the trauma of the society as well, because they might not be able to parent in that way that's different and not still be completely terrified that their child is going to be gone, like no longer be alive. And I think without acknowledging some of that I don't think we're doing a trauma work.
Sarah Potter 47:27
Not at all. I agree. 100%. So Vanessa, and I have a list of questions that we're working off of. And some of these questions pertain to how does social media affect those with trauma and all these things? And those questions are important. But I think the biggest question that we want, I want to make sure it's answered are what are ways that you suggest Vanessa healing from childhood trauma, like there, there are so many different ways in which this can happen. But from your own experience, and expertise, what what are some of the healthiest ways to go about seeking that healing, and also moving forward in that healing?
Vanessa Rosage 48:08
Right, I think if you were to boil down all the different answers, it would really be about Brett being able to invest time and energy into exploring and being curious about who you are as a person. Like you said, when you experienced childhood trauma, a lot of times that can mean that you are not able to create that space to know who you are. And so there, whether again, it'd be therapy, or books, or just time to reflect dance class, it could be getting good body work done, or it could be acupuncture, it could be just noticing where you are in your world, or healthy relationships, all of those ways in which you are reflected accurately by other people. And you can begin to explore who it is that you are. So one of my favorite exercises I give people when they begin to start this work is we talk about pleasure and joy. Because those are often concepts that are not related to their survival tactic. It's that that's thriving, when you can touch pleasure and rest, you know that you're thriving. And so one of the exercises they often give is to take something that they don't have any idea what it is that they like. And often I give the example of like yogurt, let's say that you have no idea what flavor of yogurt you like, I want you to go to the grocery store and I want you to pick every possible flavor that you think might be good. And I want you to come home and I just want you to notice what happens in your body. And we might pick a specific part of the body like the tongue or the eyes or even the heart. And like what happens to that part when you Have the strawberry flavor or the lime or the whatever. And I it's so simple and it's so basic. And it is one of the clearest ways to delineate who am I? Well, at least I know, I'm a person that likes black cherry yogurt. And it really just starts to sort of Snowball from there like, well, what kind of dessert? Do I like? What, what kind of way do I like to move my body? Do I like ice in my water do I not. And so I think even beginning to explore some of those pieces is you waking up to who it was that you had to put away in order to be in connection with another person. And of course, that can sometimes also wake up. So much fear and so much pain and so much sadness. And I absolutely recommend getting professional support, if possible. There's wonderful, wonderful amount of organizations and different places that you can go. But that is a way that I would say pretty much most people would be able to access just beginning to explore who they are.
Sarah Potter 51:10
That's such a wonderful example, the like, I never would have thought a yogurt example would hit so hard with me. And it's, it's, it's so important to reconnect with the person that you've buried for so long. And I feel so much more like myself. And to acknowledge my privilege being in a supportive loving relationship with my husband, who has given me that support and that safe space and always reminded me of that safe space has really allowed me to do that and get to know me all over again. And or even just get to know me in general, because I've never really truly known me I've known the people pleaser, Sara, for so long. And I think that's the best advice to start with. Absolutely. On the note of seeking expert help or attention from a therapist or licensed professional. For those who are acknowledging those who don't have the privilege of going to a therapist and paying out of pocket or something like that. What are some free resources for professional help for those who recognize that they need to see someone that has
Vanessa Rosage 52:33
a really excellent question. And I have no idea Farah. Somewhere? I could tell you specific to Austin, some really great resources, but that's not necessarily your audience. So yeah, sorry, I wish it could be more help in that arena. I mean, there's one numbers. Of course, there's like the suicide prevention hotlines. There's often like police that are in connection with mental health workers that will be called if you have a crisis. But that's more crisis oriented and not so much like good. Like, I know, this is more prevention, like really wanting to advocate for yourself. So I'm interested, like, I'd love to know what you find, because I don't know.
Sarah Potter 53:19
Yeah, whatever I find I'll put at the end of this episode. And then I'll send those things over to you too. And in the discord chat. Ah,
Vanessa Rosage 53:26
that'd be great. Yeah, I just know the Loveland foundation, but that's specifically for black women.
Sarah Potter 53:31
Yeah, I think there are so many different resources that need to be highlighted for those who don't have the privilege of health insurance or being able to get the professional help that they want to need. So I will, I will find those resources. That is my mission this weekend to find those resources and mention them because, like the number of people on my tic tock videos that are like, well, I guess I can't get therapy because I don't have health insurance, or what do you do if you don't have health coverage? What if you do if you can't afford out of pocket, and it's just like, oh, man, we need to find resources for those who are actively seeking that help, because that's just going to help continue to diminish the societal trauma, and the societal issues that cause trauma overall, helping everybody look like what's the phrase? The tide lifts all boats. Something Oh, that's
Vanessa Rosage 54:32
cool. Yeah. I love that.
Sarah Potter 54:35
So anyway, all of this has been so incredibly eye opening and amazing and like, I've been on mute when you're talking and I'm sitting here like trying really hard not to cry and I'm I keep it together, Sara. That's the end, but I like some things that you say have just made a huge impact on me and I hope that it makes an impact on everybody who has Listening. And I just so, so appreciate your time and your heart in this, it's so important to talk about. And I'm really glad that you're the one who can come and talk about it.
Vanessae Rosage 55:11
Thank you, Sara. It's been an equal pleasure. And I deeply appreciate the time that you're putting into creating this and making this so it's accessible to everyone so they can feel like they've got a little bit more that's available to them than they did before.
Sarah Potter 55:28
If you have questions, or you're concerned that your childhood trauma is deeply affecting you, please reach out to us on Discord and let us know that you need help. We're here to offer support through challenging times. And we also have our expert mental health professionals who are in the discord channel too, who can also make recommendations and give you advice on how to seek out a mental health professional for yourself.